Heidenhain 5 Axis Manual
Well the main problem with FANUC on 5 axis I believe is their lack of true 5 axis Kinematics to control tool centre point and tip under full machine control. Heidenhain are most experienced with Kinematics. This is an advanced file structure running in the background of the control. All tool lengths must be from the spindle nose (no tricking control like on a 3 axis machine.wont work and will be messy).when a tool is called, its length is added to the length of the tilting axis to control the tool centre point against the work piece.
So without this technology. For actual 5 axis cutting to take place on a machine without it. The length of the distance on the tilting axis must be measured (very accurately) and offsets need to be incorporated into the Post Processor of your chosen CAD/CAM platform. Heidenhain are probably the most advanced in the area of 5 axis. Just look at Cycle 19, PLANE Function, TCPM, M128, M140 MB, KinematicOPT etc and the accuracy of their rotary encoders and glass scales. I dont think FANUC can stand up to this.these days. Siemens have Cycle 800 and Tri-orie (spelling??).
Gle-spindle CNC lathes. HEIDENHAIN also used this opportunity to greatly expand the functions of the MANUAL- plus 620 once again. The new software. 5-Axis Machining: Getting a Grip. + HEIDENHAIN‘s tradition of providing. Manual fitting of the spindle or disruptions to machining are. TO Manual operation. Controls from HEIDENHAIN have been proving their. Performed on simple CNC milling machines, and it is exactly.
They try to make it function like Heidenhain. But I hear it doesnt quite. If the machine is only for 1 job.buy the Fanuc.
Its cheaper and reliable enough. Your CAM people will get it to work in any case but the approach of Heidenhain is much better. You can send NC code to the control, set all tool lengths correctly, the post processor will call M128 when a 5 axis operation is needed and your in control, accurate and safe. I wouldnt like to be trying this on a Fanuc. Siemens is cheap.
Fanuc is cheaper! You get what you pay for. Good luck with it. Well the main problem with FANUC on 5 axis I believe is their lack of true 5 axis Kinematics to control tool centre point and tip under full machine control. Heidenhain are most experienced with Kinematics. This is an advanced file structure running in the background of the control. All tool lengths must be from the spindle nose (no tricking control like on a 3 axis machine.wont work and will be messy).when a tool is called, its length is added to the length of the tilting axis to control the tool centre point against the work piece.
So without this technology. For actual 5 axis cutting to take place on a machine without it. The length of the distance on the tilting axis must be measured (very accurately) and offsets need to be incorporated into the Post Processor of your chosen CAD/CAM platform.Really? I'm shocked Fanuc can't do this.even Mazak has the ability to compensate for machine kinematics. (when using dynamic offsets) If I were looking into volume production of a small assuming round since you gave a diameter part like you're mentioning, I would skip the trunnion type 5axis VMCs and go a full featured mill-turn.
Bar capability, turning capability, handoff to sub, five axis on main/sub, auto unloading, lower turret for support (if required) will eat up parts like you're describing. Well, as I said at the beginning- 'i believe' this is the case. Its what i'm told anyway and i'm inclined to believe it. Given that there are probably more FANUC controls on machines worldwide than any other, why else would they be collectively considered 'behind' everyone else?? Just look at a machine builder like Doosan for example?? They stayed out of the 5 axis VMC market until a few years back.
As everyone knows - they have been an almost Fanuc only machine builder.maybe you could even drop the 'almost' and say they where exclusively FANUC. So the first 5 axis machine they launch is running only the Heidenhain iTNC530. I don't think they even offer the Siemens 840D as an option. Even if they do, who cares? If the FANUC control could have done the job, they would have fitted and marketed it.
Prior to this machine launch, lets assume FANUC have them wrapped around their finger anyway. Don't you think when FANUC heard they where launching a 5 axis they would have been trying to push them to take their i30 or something?? And trying to bluff them on its capabilities?? I'm not surprised Mazak can nail this capability but Heidenhain still has more functionality and on control cycles which you can program at the machine in 5 axis. Seriously, their must be 40 / 50 cycles which you can manually program, in 5 axis quite nicely.
Most other controls you are restricted to using CAM only really. HH530's are even on router's now due to the functionality.
I suppose the rest are playing catch-up. They'll all get there of course. Go for a TNC530i control You will not regret it. Its easy to use at the machine if you're knocking up a fixture or doing some setting, probing and tool measuring cycles built in (unless you really fancy blum stuff. Which comes with its own cycles. Which are just as easy to program) And you can have lots of datums/datum shifts/ 10 offsets per tool and as many tools as the machine maker can fit Its really the first control I've used thats kicked fanuc into touch as far as programming/tooling flexability is concerned.
Well, as I said at the beginning- 'i believe' this is the case. Its what i'm told anyway and i'm inclined to believe it. Given that there are probably more FANUC controls on machines worldwide than any other, why else would they be collectively considered 'behind' everyone else?? Just look at a machine builder like Doosan for example?? They stayed out of the 5 axis VMC market until a few years back. As everyone knows - they have been an almost Fanuc only machine builder.maybe you could even drop the 'almost' and say they where exclusively FANUC.
So the first 5 axis machine they launch is running only the Heidenhain iTNC530. I don't think they even offer the Siemens 840D as an option. Even if they do, who cares?
If the FANUC control could have done the job, they would have fitted and marketed it. Prior to this machine launch, lets assume FANUC have them wrapped around their finger anyway. Don't you think when FANUC heard they where launching a 5 axis they would have been trying to push them to take their i30 or something??
5 Axis Rims
And trying to bluff them on its capabilities?? I'm not surprised Mazak can nail this capability but Heidenhain still has more functionality and on control cycles which you can program at the machine in 5 axis. Seriously, their must be 40 / 50 cycles which you can manually program, in 5 axis quite nicely. Most other controls you are restricted to using CAM only really. HH530's are even on router's now due to the functionality. I suppose the rest are playing catch-up. They'll all get there of course.
TCI have heard the same thing as you on the fanuc based control. I have 2 4+1 machines and so far everything is dead nuts (but your tool lengths have to be perfect). Cycle 800 has made me lazy though.Just got a mori horizontal in and now i have to go back to the old days where fixtures have to be dead nuts.Wish I had gotten the horizontal first and the 5 axis machines with siemens last LOL. Fanuc, Heidenhain, and Seimens will all get the job done, each have their own strengths and weaknesses. As far as TCP functions and swivel cycles go, all three controls have these features. I find that Fanuc (31i) is the hardest to use out of the three simply because that is the nature of the control, its very powerful but you must tell the machine to do every little thing via G code.
Fanuc also lacks thermal compensation for the machine kinematics, so if temperature control is an issue in your shop the machine cannot compensate for any movement of the center of rotation for the rotary axes. Henceforth, your swivel cycles (G68.2 and so on) could be slightly off as temperature fluctuates. Heidenhain and Siemens both have this function, however I will say that in stable environments the Fanuc machines have been known to be dead nuts. Heidenhain (iTNC530) in my personal opinion is the best control for pure 5 axis work, there are probably 6 different variations of the swivel cycle (plane spatial, plane vector, etc.). Its your preference to use whichever, TCP is also easily enabled with M128 and canceled with M129. Seimens (840d) has all these functions as well (cycle800 for swivel) and TRAORI and TRAFOOF for TCP, Heidenhain however has the edge in terms of smoothing the toolpath and machine motion, you should expect to see better (but very little) finishes over a Siemens control. Thats not to say the Heidenhain is without fault, to name a few complaints the work offset table is always in metric (although you can adjust in inch) and all of your feedrates must be multiplied by 10 (a feedrate of 10IPM = 100 in Heidenhain land).
Also the Heidenhain control cannot perform any turning functions at this point in time, this is where Siemens has an edge on Heidenhain for the time being. Heidenhain however is working on a new control set to be released next year that is capable of 5 axis milling and turning. Seimens also has added value to those who are more familiar to Fanuc controls as the programming is more similar to that control than it is to the Heidenhain.
All in all they all get the job done one way or another and they all have their advantages and disadvantages. DMG/Mori app guy. Fanuc, Heidenhain, and Seimens will all get the job done, each have their own strengths and weaknesses. As far as TCP functions and swivel cycles go, all three controls have these features. I find that Fanuc (31i) is the hardest to use out of the three simply because that is the nature of the control, its very powerful but you must tell the machine to do every little thing via G code. Fanuc also lacks thermal compensation for the machine kinematics, so if temperature control is an issue in your shop the machine cannot compensate for any movement of the center of rotation for the rotary axes.
Henceforth, your swivel cycles (G68.2 and so on) could be slightly off as temperature fluctuates. Heidenhain and Siemens both have this function, however I will say that in stable environments the Fanuc machines have been known to be dead nuts. Heidenhain (iTNC530) in my personal opinion is the best control for pure 5 axis work, there are probably 6 different variations of the swivel cycle (plane spatial, plane vector, etc.). Its your preference to use whichever, TCP is also easily enabled with M128 and canceled with M129. Seimens (840d) has all these functions as well (cycle800 for swivel) and TRAORI and TRAFOOF for TCP, Heidenhain however has the edge in terms of smoothing the toolpath and machine motion, you should expect to see better (but very little) finishes over a Siemens control.
Thats not to say the Heidenhain is without fault, to name a few complaints the work offset table is always in metric (although you can adjust in inch) and all of your feedrates must be multiplied by 10 (a feedrate of 10IPM = 100 in Heidenhain land). Also the Heidenhain control cannot perform any turning functions at this point in time, this is where Siemens has an edge on Heidenhain for the time being. Heidenhain however is working on a new control set to be released next year that is capable of 5 axis milling and turning. Seimens also has added value to those who are more familiar to Fanuc controls as the programming is more similar to that control than it is to the Heidenhain. All in all they all get the job done one way or another and they all have their advantages and disadvantages. DMG/Mori app guyheidenhain has a new controll recently the tnc 640 wich has the ability for mill turning.
5 Axis Lexus
Hey guys, we have a Hermle C600U at work that I've been tasked with getting in 5 axis production It has a Heidenhain TNC 430 control that I'm getting the hang of, but definitely could use some guidance on. I'm used to Fanuc 5 axis machines and using the G43.4 tool tip control mode, so naturally I was wanting to use the Heidenhain M128 code to use it's rtcp mode.
I don't think I'm doing something right though, the machine does look as though its following the tool tip coordinate around during rotations, but something is not right about it. The motion doesn't look too clean. I was wondering if anyone here could post an example of how their post outputs for this? I have the ability to edit the post for this machine and seeing an example from someone else would get me going in the right direction. Also, these Heidenhain's have a rtcp calibration program (I read about this somewhere online) that uses the probe that came with the machine. I think you just need a tooling ball and it will self calibrate.
If anybody cares to elaborate on that, I would really appreciate it. So after playing around with the machine yesterday, I found my problem. I don't believe the probe length was properly calibrated in the machine. That's why I would be getting a disconnect with the tool tip motion and why it would look funny.
When I set the machine Z with a block off the spindle face and then picked up a tool length from there it all started to work right. I was able to run my test program and the tool appeared to track properly. As far as the heidenhain goes, I guess it's not that it's a hard control, but just different. I'm experiencing growing pains with it!(skills wise hehe) Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate them!